Sheila Schoonmaker

September 20, 2008

Society Can Be Its Own Worst Enemy

Filed under: Aspie Myths, My Aspieness, My Life — Sheila @ 1:20 pm
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I doubt most people realize the Catch 22 situation that hinders society from being able to dispel the myths about Aspergers syndrome and to get the proper information that’s needed in order for the right people to be in authority on matters in regard to Aspergers.

Most of the time and money being poured into research to study about AS is not only wasteful, but also potentially destructive. Too many wrong conclusions are made because of relying upon observations. Observations are fine, but what is lacking is enough of the right kind of communication.

How can I say this, especially when I haven’t had as much time being aware of Aspergers existence as many others? Because the information that really counts, when it comes to grasping what Aspergers is, does NOT come from structured research done in controlled environments specifically designed for studies.

The best source of knowledge, as with most things, comes from experiences that happen in life naturally.¹ For example, we can’t control things like who our relatives are and/or the way a lot of events unfold over time. Such things can be a curse or a blessing, depending on how you perceive them and what you do with them.

My life is a good example of a situation in which a desired outcome or solution seems impossible to attain because of a set of inherently illogical rules and conditions. The desired outcome I’d like to see is a way for me to take what I’ve learned and have it boosted up to the forefront so it is at least on par with all the misinformation that has already had a chance to spread. The set of inherently illogical rules have arrived because too much wrong information has received the opportunity to embed itself into society. A condition that adds to the impossibility has to do with the amount of insufficient intelligence that exists. There are other conditions too (e.g., politics), but those kinds of things are not as exclusive to Aspergers.

Starting with intelligence, it is both relative and relevant. An IQ point gives the illusion of an intelligence level as being absolute (existing independently), but such numbers should not be used like those on a measuring cup. It’s disgusting to see how IQ points have become like a scoreboard in a competition event! That being said, intelligence still remains highly relevant for understanding Aspergers. However, a high IQ isn’t enough to guarantee its comprehension. Adding to that, other aspects also influence the ability to grasp such a complex concept as Aspergers.

What is known about AS is only the tip of the iceburg. The bulk of it will probably always remain a mystery to most people. I’m not saying we should give up on educating the public about AS. What I am saying is that those who have the authority to create and/or enforce rules and/or laws that set the way society handles Aspergers must NOT be done by those who truly do not understand it. In all probability, those who do ‘get it’ well enough will also have the integrity to incorporate their knowledge properly. Wrong motives usually produce unreliable outcomes. Curiosity driven by those who love an aspie(s?) is not the same thing as the type driven by a passion to be an ‘authority’ on the subject.

I gave one example of how illogical rules and conditions affected Mary Newport in my post about Unequal Reactions to Fame. I have many examples, but I can’t publicize them without putting the people in these examples at risk. This is also why I have to keep what I post limited to a certain level that’s far from being as helpful to society as whatever I may already have on my blog for others to gain insight from.

This ‘handicap’ works the other way too. I could offer more if I could get feedback that would have greater detail instead of comments remaining relatively vague. That’s to be expected given the risks that come along with using the internet. In spite of such blocks that exist for developing a greater understanding of Aspergers for those who don’t ‘get it’, fate has managed to provide alternative sources for helping me to understand the neurotypical mind. I will not divulge the specifics I’m referring to because of knowing what can happen if I do. People should know I don’t want to hoard what I get and use it only for myself and my family, but also people should know society is to blame when beneficial information is kept private. 

I doubt I’m the only one who is aware of society being its own worst enemy in this way. What’s uncommon is to see attention brought to this situation. If it wasn’t for certain people of high intelligence, who actually know me (not totally, but well enough) and who give their input as to what they’ve witnessed happening and continue to see happening, what I was beginning to suspect never would have been confirmed.

One fact repeatedly witnessed is how consistently judgments made about me can end up being completely opposite from the truth. Another thing pointed out was this correlation → The lower the intelligence, the lower the accuracy of judging. The higher the intelligence, the less mistakes (generally speaking). Patience and proper information are also necessary, but without enough of a capacity to process the information gained, the ability to reach the level of insight necessary to begin to perceive things correctly is impossible. That might sound arrogant, but how can anyone point out this vital aspect without offending some? To refrain from such bold statements, is irresponsible behavior.

¹Neurotypical moms observing their aspie children they live with day and night can be more helpful than psychologists whose only exposure to aspies are their clients who come into their office by appointment. However, those sources alone do NOT provide enough information for either of them to be writing as reliable of a book about Aspergers as certain aspies can (can does not mean will). Children have not lived a substantial lifetime yet, so it is impossible for them to be able to offer what mature aspies can give, especially ones who have experienced a lot of different things in life.

August 26, 2008

Egocentricity

Filed under: Aspie Myths — Sheila @ 3:58 am
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“Most Asperger difficulties centre around social competencies. A characteristic of young children is egocentrism. People with Asperger’s remain in this egocentric state, unable to interpret the thoughts and emotions of others, just like people with Autism.”  — Autistic Society Organization

Isn’t it just lovely the way that the Autistic Society organization describes Asperger’s Syndrome in their encyclopedia? I’d love to ask them, “What the *#@% does egocentrism have to do with neurology?!”¹

It’s been awhile since I’ve posted about Aspie myths and I’d probably quit doing so if I could avoid seeing any more degrading remarks said about Aspies. To make my point on this myth, I’ll just throw the matching shoe onto the other foot for better balance:

“Most neurotypical difficulties centre around social competencies. A characteristic of young children is egocentrism. People with neurotypical brains remain in this egocentric state, unable to interpret the thoughts and emotions of others, just like unregenerate people.”  — Neurotypical Society Organization

Let me ask those ignorant NTs who act like they know it all (as found in many of the Autistic Society Organizations) this question:

If NTs grow up to be so free from egocentrism, then why the *#@% do they need seminars, textbooks, training, etc. if they are able to interpret the thoughts and emotions of others (like Aspies and Auties)?! That would be like a person telling cats to shut up (assuming cats had a way to communicate with people on their level) so he can write a book explaining how cats think!

¹egocentric — noun; a self-centered person with little regard for others. — adjective; limited to or caring only about yourself and your own needs.

May 13, 2008

Fragments First, Patterns Later

Filed under: Aspie Myths, My Aspieness — Sheila @ 9:35 am
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I haven’t thought long on this, so maybe I’m writing prematurely about it. If so, I’ll come back and edit this post. Anyhow, I have another example of what appears contradicting to me when reading Olga Bogdashina’s book Theory of Mind and the Triad of Perspectives on Autism and Asperger Syndrome.

On page 106 she says, “On the conceptual level, gestalt perception leads to rigidity of thinking and lack of generalization.” I understand and agree with her general concept about fragmented perception she is explaining. She also writes on that page, “When too much information needs to be processed simultaneously, very often people with autism are not able to break down the whole picture into meaningful units and so they process only those bits which happen to get their attention.” I’m glad she follows that statement by using VanDalen’s words, “It seems as though autistic people react to parts of the objects as being complete entities in themselves.”¹

I confess I displayed a poor ability to generalize things like plot summaries for book reports when I was in school. This is probably why there is a lot of confusion about this topic. It has to do with the concept of executive function. Tony Attwood’s definition of this in his book The Complete Guide to Asperger’s Syndrome from page 323 states a critical factor that’s ignored too much. It has to do with the time element:

“. . . think of a chief executive of a large company, who has the ability to perceive the ‘big picture’, can consider the potential outcomes of various decisions, is able to organize resources and knowledge, plan and prioritize within the required time frame, and modify decisions based on results.”

I’m sure if Einstein was placed under time deadlines for his theories, he would not have been able to satisfy those who were in a hurry. Yes, corporate executives can build huge companies and they do seem to do well financially . . . BUT who is going to disagree that their decisions to rush out products for profit are beginning to show signs of creating problems in the long run that are not good. I don’t enjoy adding this, but must → Most likely those people who can’t perceive this are unable to do so either because they are not spatial thinkers, don’t care enough to work at thinking this through, or both.

I’d like to speak for myself by saying I am (and always have been) fully aware of the fact that parts of objects are not complete entities in themselves (at least in the sense I’m gathering what she means). I’m now convinced (but did not confidently know this about myself before this year) I’m more aware of the whole picture (the gestalt perception) than most neurotypical people could image.² When a person sees the ‘package’ so exceptionally well, it appears to those who are less able at knowing how things ‘fit’ together that we autistics are viewing parts of objects as being complete entities in themselves.

When you add what Bogdashina writes about “autistics being concrete thinkers who need to understand associative and spatial thought patterns” on page 119:

“Being a spatial thinker means that a person represents things in the mind with a multidimensional model. This way of thinking brings both advantages and disadvantages. On the one hand, it is easier to see certain patterns of the world and infer things from those patterns. On the other hand, it is more difficult to do things that are more sequential (one-dimensional and in a line), especially when such a task involves picking a one-dimensional line out of multidimensional possibilities.³“

. . . she seems to be saying there is no lack of generalization after all. If there was a true inability to ’see the forest through the trees,’ then why the heck are autistic people (generally speaking) much better at discerning patterns and knowing what function parts perform in the whole scenario?

One last note, probably the most important factor missing in all this is integrity. When people are too full of self-centered priorities, they decide what they do because they don’t care about others since they feel protected from the consequences of their bad decisions due to the financial wealth they gain from them. As for ’social’ decisions in regards to this same concept, people feel protected if they are a member of a powerful gang, pack, organization, clique, government, cult, etc. It is the lone traveler, who doesn’t conform and is misunderstood, that needs to be confident and courageous. The Protestant reformer, Martin Luther, is a great example of a person without self-centered priorities, financial wealth, and who had to began alone in his quest to change what he could see was wrong about how the Catholic church was using the bible and people to get wealthy and powerful.

¹This ‘it seems as though statement’ is the aspie myth part of the post. I bring to attention as a reminder for all people to exercise caution when making assumptions.

²As I’ve already footnoted in my I’ve just got to do it! post, “I had no idea that when I applied for a job as a locksmith in 1980, I was doing anything exceptional by being able to take a lock apart and reassemble it. I was told, out of about 100 applicants, only one other person besides me could put the lock back together again.”

³This is why multiple choice tests are so irritating to most Asperger people.

April 18, 2008

Not from Concentrate

Filed under: Aspie Myths — Sheila @ 8:18 am
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Some ’symptoms’ and characteristics of Aspergers . . . again:

Difficulty concentrating to write essays, reports, etc. frustrated

Is it Aspieness or is it spring that is the reason for me having difficulty concentrating on writing posts during these days of perfect weather? It’s neither! As said, the best written material is created when the writer has something to say.

Anyone who does their homework about Aspies knows that AS people have very little trouble focusing on writing about whatever has passionately grabbed their attention. In fact, most Aspies do better at writing their thoughts out rather than speaking about what’s on their mind.

Constantly throughout my life I’ve had people tell me that I seem completely different in person than from who I seem to be when expressing myself via textual mode. To make this ’symptom’ and characteristic of Aspergers sound more correct, it should be stated:

Difficulty concentrating on talking to people when having to speak ‘live,’ especially during ’spur of the moment’ conversations in unexpected places with people not well acquainted with.worried

April 8, 2008

Is this my last straw?

Filed under: Aspie Myths — Sheila @ 2:25 pm
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I’m only about 36% of the way through an ongoing list of ’symptoms’ and characteristics of Aspergers put together by the National Aspergone Society (the Union of Asperger Watchers, Inc.).¹ I stopped to reflect on how to write about:

Fixating on really bad or really good experiences.

Then it occurred to me, “Will my Aspie Myths writing column be interpreted by those on the Asperdubon panel as being an example of fixating on really bad experiences?” I’m sure they don’t view their derogatory list as being bad, but they might perceive my not-so-pithy aspie mythy section as being a fixation.

I’m beginning to think I’ve said enough to expose the myths being puked out by those with no stomach for people who merely think differently. Just about everything on their list is inconsistent with reason or logic or good sense; plus, it’s completely devoid of wisdom!

I hope I have not insulted the intelligence of my readers by having anyone feel like I’m thinking for them. If people can’t figure out by now what’s going on, then I doubt my measly Aspie Myths category can make up for those deficiencies.

Having learned as much as I have about how Asperger people are being portrayed to the public has me needing to find really good experiences to fixate on. Before I can though, I must first go and make some more because I seem to have misplaced my others along the way here.

¹For those who haven’t caught on, the National Aspergone Society (Union of Asperger Watchers, Inc.) is something I made up to poke fun at the characters who think they can know the mind of an Aspie by watching Aspies. Even the bird watchers of the National Audubon Society, Inc. don’t make such bigoted notes in their notebooks, books, or website.

April 2, 2008

Eye Non-Contact Explained

Filed under: Aspie Myths, My Aspieness — Sheila @ 5:48 am
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Fact: It’s a common ’symptom’ and characteristic of Aspergers for Aspergians to not look others in the eye when conversing.

Myths: All Aspies have ‘difficulty’ maintaining eye contact. Aspies who do have this difficulty have no valid reason for this socially unacceptable behavior.

The most important and least known about factor in this equation is based on what is meant by difficult. The real issue here stems from the difference between the way an Aspie mind processes information and how a neurotypical brain does so.

Aspergians don’t have the same kind of data input ‘filters’ that NTs do. NTs normally don’t get overwhelmed by what’s around them. There are many things which escape their perception. Tests prove this.¹ Because Aspies unconsciously absorb too much information at once, it’s necessary to maintain focus on one thought at a time. An audible analogy of this principle would be like listening to a radio. You can only enjoy it if you tune into one station at a time. Imagine if you had no control over all the stations coming in at once. If that happened, you’d have to ‘tune out’ all interfering channels which prevent your concentration on the one channel that’s holding your interest.

This same principle of ‘multi-channel’ interference goes on when an NT is trying to converse with an Asperger person. I know this because I consciously practice paying attention to what I’m doing while holding a thought-provoking conversation with another person. Every time I have to respond by creating a new thought (e.g., rephrasing a statement into a question so as not to ‘offend’ the other party — often times as a ‘what if?’), before I can ‘grab’ my ‘new’ thought, I HAVE TO break eye contact in order to concentrate. If I was forced to keep my eyes focused on a person while she is talking to me during an intense and/or deep conversation, then she will not benefit from what I have to offer because I will be too distracted by other thoughts . . . just like you’d be if you were forced to hear all stations channeling in at once into your mind.

This is why you see an Asperger child become disturbed and uncomfortable whenever he is forced to look someone in the eye who is talking to him. He is trying to think, but when the talker insists on eye contact, he is struggling to hang onto what’s going on through his mind. Children are too young to be able to realize this is what’s going on because they cannot grasp the concept of someone else not thinking the same way they do. They have no clue that an NT’s brain does not function like theirs. How could they, especially when NTs don’t even know that this is what’s going on. It takes life experience and work to learn such things. Aspie children should learn this, but NTs are not going to teach them because they are the majority and the majority gets to make the rules.

How is forced eye contact any different than a parent telling her or his child, “You do it because I said so and I’m the Mom/Dad!” What if that parent doesn’t know what they’re doing, but s/he thinks s/he does simply because s/he is older? Of course most people want to do what’s best, but how does someone know what’s best if they’re ignorant of why someone does what s/he does?

I think it’s foolish, egotistical, and destructive for society to always insist upon ‘proper’ eye contact. Looking away helps concentration, so why ‘dumb down’ those who are neurologically developing in a different manner that neurotypicals cannot understand? For what reason? Because it makes most people feel insulted if someone isn’t transmitting eye contact with them the way that most others do?

¹Read the section Being Oblivious in Temple Grandin’s book, “Animals in Translation.” Along with other reference material suggested in that section, she states that “Normal human beings are blind to anything they’re not paying attention to.” Towards the end of that section, she also writes, “Being able to filter out distractions is a good thing; just ask anyone who can’t filter things out, like a person with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. It’s hard for humans to function intellectually when every little sensory detail in their environment keeps hijacking their attention. You go into information overload.”

April 1, 2008

Aspie Myths

Filed under: Aspie Myths, My Thoughts — Sheila @ 6:34 pm

I created a new category for my posts which expose the myths about Aspergers. It is at the top of the category list on the right of this post. These posts about Aspie myths used to be filed under ‘My Aspieness.’

When I began this blog on January the 24th, I had no idea how much I would be writing on what. I know I cannot please everyone and I know I cannot be perfect. I’m not even here to be popular. I’m here to be me . . . just like wherever I am — if I wasn’t, then my thoughts I have to offer would be compromised.

Some say I should write every day to become a better writer, but then others suggest I cut back on my volume since quality¹ is better than quantity. I see both points. What’s probably not realized is my need for observation² in order to practice the art of fine-tuning the direction this blog takes.

¹Quality is relative when it comes to what’s said. It’s impossible for me to judge what others find useful to know; just as it is for others to know what I information I find useful or what blogs entertain me.

²Even though hidden stats are very helpful, comments often times provide the best guidance. I welcome any constructive feedback, but will not accept criticism which lacks anything positive or anything which may lure an argument.

AspergerSteam

Filed under: Aspie Myths — Sheila @ 12:07 pm
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Moron written about some ’symptoms’ and characteristics of Aspergers, but this time without

  1. excessive talking → about:
  2. low or no participation in conferences, group meetings, etc.
  3. difficulty working as a “team,”
  4. lacking initiation when in groups, and
  5. difficulty talking to classmates or co-workers as “pals.”

Excessive is another one of those relative words. I’d say almost all of my teachers in school were excessive talkers. What makes the difference between neurotypical people talking too much verses Aspergians doing so is attitude.

NTs communicate with a different language that relies upon their own culture’s non-verbal smoke signals to send their ‘polite’ hints to let a speaker know they’ve had enough. Yawns, looking at something else (like a watch), etc. usually work (not well with teachers and ministers though).

Aspergians shoot ’straight from the hip’ during conversations. So does the deaf culture. Neither think like typical people do. Aspies and deaf folks don’t enjoy wasting time with small talk that is meaningless and boring. If I say anymore about the first on my list in this post, then that’s excessive.

The next relative in this family of words put together to make Aspergers look inferior stems from the myth that Aspergians either don’t participate or have low participation in such things as conferences or group meetings. Let’s ask Autism Speaks if we can show how we’re able to bust this myth!

Next, let’s ask the Autism Hub how difficult it is for them to get Aspergians to volunteer as blog members. How do the ‘professionals’ on Aspergers explain the comments that were on Blogging for Autism Awareness In April ?

Has anyone ever been forced to work on a “team” that has no clue over what they’re doing . . . but yet the other team members think they do? If so, how easy was it?

As for initiation in groups, much depends on the level of logic Aspergians see in that group. Because Aspies (mixed in a group of NT people) usually detect patterns well ahead of NTs (NTs . . . you have your own ‘gifts,’ so don’t get in a tizzy now), Aspergians don’t bother to introduce something that they know is going to be rejected. We Aspies are not as retarded as some people might like to think we are.

Difficulty talking to classmates or co-workers as “pals?” Let’s take a native from one country (e.g., Aspergians) and a native from another country (e.g., those in the deaf culture), then put them together in a third country (e.g., hearing enabled NTs) to watch how they all get along.

March 29, 2008

What’s Recognized?

Filed under: Aspie Myths — Sheila @ 9:05 am
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My next exposé on yet another ’symptom’ and characteristic of Aspergers:

Difficulty with constant anxiety, worried about performance and being accepted, despite commendation and special recognition.

Again, it depends. The most obvious factor which will determine if someone struggles with this issue is what his parents are like. After them, it’s the influence of: siblings, relatives, the family’s friends, teachers, peers, etc.

I will borrow a quote (sorry, I don’t know who wrote it) which is off the topic a little, but it should help with this explanation:

“Not every autistic person doesn’t want a cure. I’ve talked to a few that would want one. But the strange common factor between those people seems to be that they’ve all suffered a great deal of prejudice, and been told that their autistic traits are bad and wrong and if only they were normal… As a result they seem not to have been taught how to use their autistic traits, but rather to suppress them and try to do things the “normal” way.They’ve got a right to say what they say. It’s just that I think if they were accepted and helped to learn instead of pitied and “trained” to be normal, they would be a lot happier, and it wouldn’t matter so much that there isn’t a cure. Maybe they would still want one; but they’d be happier and they wouldn’t seem to spend their days wishing that they could be normal…I think in a world where autistic people were accepted and educated properly, most autistic people wouldn’t want a cure; and those who did, could still be happy without one.”

Now I’ll add an example of a person who displayed this ’symptom’ and characteristic of Aspergers:

There was an Aspie student in a public speaking class who gave her speech on the topic of Aspergers. Even though she received an A- for it, she was highly upset over not getting an A+.

When people judge a person based on what they witness without knowing the other factors that enter into the equation, they don’t understand why someone doesn’t behave like they would if they were in that same situation. Now I’ll give a couple of examples from my own life of such factors:

Last night I went out for dinner with my husband (don’t judge — going out on a date with him now is a novel experience because it’s something we didn’t even do before we got married 2 decades ago!). After eating, the waitress asked if we would like dessert. My husband requested a cheesecake, along with a cup of coffee. When the waitress looked at me, I told her I didn’t want anything other than just a cup of coffee. (My husband said I spoke politely and audibly clear enough to be heard.)

She came back to our table with one cup of coffee and a slice of cheesecake. They both were placed in front of my husband. She didn’t even look at me. That’s another fine example of the autistic superpower of being invisible!

Last summer, as I was visiting a neighbor while she was having a yard sale, I was chatting with another neighbor who came to visit. We were talking casually about careers.¹ All seemed to be going along fine, so when she blurted out, “Your husband must be a saint to be married to you,” I became speechless from shock!

Need I say more for others to get my point I’m trying to express?

¹That ‘rude’ neighbor (a secretary) was disturbed over my refusal (an assumption on her part) to get a ‘job’ (her judgment of me). I feel honored to be a homemaker (retired homeschooler) for the glory of God.

March 27, 2008

Sensitivity to Value

Filed under: Aspie Myths — Sheila @ 12:16 pm
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It’s because of my sensitivities that I had to choose the ’symptom’ and asperger characteristic of strong sensitivity to sound, light, some tastes, odors and colors today. If I picked a different asperger issue to counter-balance the massive amount of misinformation circulating through the media, my anger level would escalate too high.

I doubt most people realize how difficult it is for someone, such as my ‘aspie’ self, to endure watching documentaries filmed on the topic of Autism. I won’t mention which one I viewed today, but I will say it lasted 93 minutes and 52 seconds. It did cover the issue of sensitivity to sound and light, but practically nothing was said about autistics’ sensitivities with taste, odor, or color. That’s no big deal.

What is bad however is the way that people are reacting towards Autism and Autistics. Watching so-called ‘educational’ videos on this topic reminds me of a bunch of hens running around a hen-house in a panic without knowing where the fox is. There is no way to ’sugar coat’ this — the ignorance level of a lot of the people who are putting themselves in charge ‘helping’ autistic children (especially the Asperger Syndrome/High-Functioning Autistics) is scary.

Why don’t these people incorporate the help that ‘well-aged’ adults, who are on the high end of the autism spectrum, can give them? Doesn’t this missing ingredient raise any red-flags for anyone? . . . or are people to dull and/or proud to notice?

My heart breaks when I see the way that adults in these documentaries try to ‘train’ autistic children! It’s obvious to me they don’t know what they’re doing.¹ Some of them at least are getting a vague ‘connection’ pulling them into the right direction when they allow their children to teach them something. The reason these children can’t teach anyone else other than their parents is because no one else really cares to know! People may pretend, but if they are, they’re most likely doing it for whatever money they can grab for themselves by taking advantage of a situation.

How long will it take for people to wake up and see that it is not the children who need to change, but rather society’s perception of them? One mother summed it up perfectly! She said her daughter taught her that there was NOTHING wrong with her daughter, but rather the problem was that society would never VALUE her daughter . . . even though her daughter has aspects about herself that have value which society could benefit from.

Heightened sensitivity itself is a value when used in the proper channels. Is it necessary to say what advantages a person has, who is able to discern more subtle sounds, tastes, odors, colors, lights, movement, details, etc. with greater accuracy, than someone who is less sensitive in these areas?

If we know that you can’t put a round peg into a square hole, then why do people believe it is possible to fit autistic children into mainstream schools? Since it’s obvious there are enough neuro-A-typical children in society that would benefit from schools specifically geared to their style of learning, the whole idea of trying to make mainstream schools accommodate their needs is absurd!

The problem however that would crop up with schools specializing in teaching students on the autism spectrum would be keeping out the greedy foxes that sneak in. The television media is already feeding them, along with big businesses such as: Starbucks, Toys ‘R Us, and Build-A-Bear Workshop. I spot quite a few of these ‘bad apples’ sitting in at asperger conventions. It’s easy for me to tell who they are by the way they ‘talk down’ to me as if I’m inferior. If I’m not supposed to be sensitive about that, then I say, “Oh well . . . good luck everyone because you’re going to need it!”

¹I’m talking about the general long-term consequences more than anything. The process is slow and subtle; one step at a time.

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